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	<title>Comments on: Antigo Fantasy Health Fair (by Albus)</title>
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		<title>By: Albus</title>
		<link>http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/2008/10/08/antigo-fantasy-health-fair-by-albus/comment-page-1/#comment-4168</link>
		<dc:creator>Albus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/?p=118#comment-4168</guid>
		<description>Factorfiction, are you saying the no-drug &quot;alternatives&quot; deliver the same results as the drug treatments? I&#039;d sure like to see the evidence for that, like, for cancer, pneumonia, rH factor incompatibility, anaphylactic reaction to bee stings, and stuff like that there. What have you got for research citations?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Factorfiction, are you saying the no-drug &#8220;alternatives&#8221; deliver the same results as the drug treatments? I&#8217;d sure like to see the evidence for that, like, for cancer, pneumonia, rH factor incompatibility, anaphylactic reaction to bee stings, and stuff like that there. What have you got for research citations?</p>
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		<title>By: Factorfiction</title>
		<link>http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/2008/10/08/antigo-fantasy-health-fair-by-albus/comment-page-1/#comment-4149</link>
		<dc:creator>Factorfiction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/?p=118#comment-4149</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll join you Albus, but only if we can also have the so called real doctors of medicine there also. I think this would be rather amuzing. After all the so called real doctors claim they also can heal, but with drugs from their drug company suppliers. It&#039;s all just a business for all, they are just trying to get your cash, only the so called real doctors charge more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll join you Albus, but only if we can also have the so called real doctors of medicine there also. I think this would be rather amuzing. After all the so called real doctors claim they also can heal, but with drugs from their drug company suppliers. It&#8217;s all just a business for all, they are just trying to get your cash, only the so called real doctors charge more.</p>
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		<title>By: Albus</title>
		<link>http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/2008/10/08/antigo-fantasy-health-fair-by-albus/comment-page-1/#comment-4072</link>
		<dc:creator>Albus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 10:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/?p=118#comment-4072</guid>
		<description>Citereh, in spite of what you are seeing in the current national political arena, it is poor form to attempt to shift the point of a discussion from the merits of the presentation to the personal make-up of the presenter. That&#039;s called &quot;The Appeal to the Man (Argumentum Ad Hominem)&quot; on William Kilgore&#039;s &quot;Introductory Logic&quot; web page at http://members.tripod.com/AttitudeAdjustment/Books/Logic.htm

Let me address your diversions, so we can return to the main point.

First, in no way do I feel &quot;threatened by the choices others are making.&quot; I do, however, feel disappointed when someone makes an uninformed choice, then justifies it with superstition and magical thinking. And, I must confess, I feel downright irritated by those who use deception to prey on the uninformed and the gullible. So, my target is not the victim, but the perpetrator. This diversion is called &quot;Poisoning the Wells&quot;.

Second, I never said, or inferred, or imputed, that anyone was &quot;severely thought-impaired&quot;. Rather, I claim that many are misinformed, and thereby deceived. It is a bit of a stretch for you to assign motives and attitudes to me that I do not hold, then slam me for holding them. That&#039;s a Straw Man Argument, and is called &quot;Begging the Question (Petitio Principii)&quot; on Kilgore&#039;s page.

Returning to the point at hand, the purpose of the Antigo Fantasy Health Fair is to give Antigo&#039;s health entertainment practitioners a venue to display their art and craft. To use your notion of implied motives, why do you, or any of the health entertainment practitioners, feel threatened by the notion of being subjected to public scrutiny? What do you have to hide? (This called a &quot;Leading Question&quot;, compounded by a &quot;Fallacy of Composition&quot; and &quot;Begging the Question&quot;.)

Your point, well-taken, is, apparently, that folks are entitled to pursue any treatment they believe will help them. I&#039;ll agree with you, but only with these caveats: First, that any &quot;Alternative Medicine&quot; treatments must be complementary to evidence-based health care, and not adopted as primary care methods. Second, that users of alternative medicine be fully informed of both the purported basis (rationale) for the treatment AND evidence contradicting or disproving the treatment. How can you make an informed choice if you only have one side of the story?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Citereh, in spite of what you are seeing in the current national political arena, it is poor form to attempt to shift the point of a discussion from the merits of the presentation to the personal make-up of the presenter. That&#8217;s called &#8220;The Appeal to the Man (Argumentum Ad Hominem)&#8221; on William Kilgore&#8217;s &#8220;Introductory Logic&#8221; web page at <a href="http://members.tripod.com/AttitudeAdjustment/Books/Logic.htm" rel="nofollow">http://members.tripod.com/AttitudeAdjustment/Books/Logic.htm</a></p>
<p>Let me address your diversions, so we can return to the main point.</p>
<p>First, in no way do I feel &#8220;threatened by the choices others are making.&#8221; I do, however, feel disappointed when someone makes an uninformed choice, then justifies it with superstition and magical thinking. And, I must confess, I feel downright irritated by those who use deception to prey on the uninformed and the gullible. So, my target is not the victim, but the perpetrator. This diversion is called &#8220;Poisoning the Wells&#8221;.</p>
<p>Second, I never said, or inferred, or imputed, that anyone was &#8220;severely thought-impaired&#8221;. Rather, I claim that many are misinformed, and thereby deceived. It is a bit of a stretch for you to assign motives and attitudes to me that I do not hold, then slam me for holding them. That&#8217;s a Straw Man Argument, and is called &#8220;Begging the Question (Petitio Principii)&#8221; on Kilgore&#8217;s page.</p>
<p>Returning to the point at hand, the purpose of the Antigo Fantasy Health Fair is to give Antigo&#8217;s health entertainment practitioners a venue to display their art and craft. To use your notion of implied motives, why do you, or any of the health entertainment practitioners, feel threatened by the notion of being subjected to public scrutiny? What do you have to hide? (This called a &#8220;Leading Question&#8221;, compounded by a &#8220;Fallacy of Composition&#8221; and &#8220;Begging the Question&#8221;.)</p>
<p>Your point, well-taken, is, apparently, that folks are entitled to pursue any treatment they believe will help them. I&#8217;ll agree with you, but only with these caveats: First, that any &#8220;Alternative Medicine&#8221; treatments must be complementary to evidence-based health care, and not adopted as primary care methods. Second, that users of alternative medicine be fully informed of both the purported basis (rationale) for the treatment AND evidence contradicting or disproving the treatment. How can you make an informed choice if you only have one side of the story?</p>
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		<title>By: Citereh</title>
		<link>http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/2008/10/08/antigo-fantasy-health-fair-by-albus/comment-page-1/#comment-4066</link>
		<dc:creator>Citereh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 03:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/?p=118#comment-4066</guid>
		<description>Just a bit of clarification...most SANE people seeking alternative &quot;medicine&quot; have already been diagnosed (sometimes misdiagnosed) by their MD&#039;s. 

Typically, they&#039;re seeking relief from what they&#039;re FEELING, not a cure for what ails them. Just one example...Western medicine offers few options (prescriptions, surgery &amp;/or therapy) for those suffering from chronic pain. Chronic pain can stem from a multitude of conditions, most of which are NOT life-threatening, but rather, QUALITY OF LIFE threatening. Any alternative that offers relief (whether anecdotal, placebo, stress-reducing, etc.) should not be dismissed out-of-hand simply because it cannot be measured &amp; quantified in a lab. A reduction in pain (physical OR emotional - both potentially debilitating) should not be marginalized, whether accomplished in a medical office or a witch-doctors bungalow.

Perhaps the bigger issue here is why Albus feels so incredibly threatened by the choices others are making. As he/she apparently sees most of us as severely thought-impaired, we really should be grateful that someone of such obvious superior intellect is trying to save us from ourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a bit of clarification&#8230;most SANE people seeking alternative &#8220;medicine&#8221; have already been diagnosed (sometimes misdiagnosed) by their MD&#8217;s. </p>
<p>Typically, they&#8217;re seeking relief from what they&#8217;re FEELING, not a cure for what ails them. Just one example&#8230;Western medicine offers few options (prescriptions, surgery &amp;/or therapy) for those suffering from chronic pain. Chronic pain can stem from a multitude of conditions, most of which are NOT life-threatening, but rather, QUALITY OF LIFE threatening. Any alternative that offers relief (whether anecdotal, placebo, stress-reducing, etc.) should not be dismissed out-of-hand simply because it cannot be measured &amp; quantified in a lab. A reduction in pain (physical OR emotional &#8211; both potentially debilitating) should not be marginalized, whether accomplished in a medical office or a witch-doctors bungalow.</p>
<p>Perhaps the bigger issue here is why Albus feels so incredibly threatened by the choices others are making. As he/she apparently sees most of us as severely thought-impaired, we really should be grateful that someone of such obvious superior intellect is trying to save us from ourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Albus</title>
		<link>http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/2008/10/08/antigo-fantasy-health-fair-by-albus/comment-page-1/#comment-4053</link>
		<dc:creator>Albus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 11:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/?p=118#comment-4053</guid>
		<description>What, me? Off the deep end? Hey, I&#039;m not the guy claiming, &quot;Get over it…if someone FEELS better, more power to ‘em.&quot; That was Citereh. That points up a potential disconnect between FEELING better and BEING better. For instance, if you have a tummy-ache and you get involved in a six-month series of repeat visits for placebo ego-stoking and some homeopathic nostrums, and you feel better, and the resulting delay in evidence-based treatment allows the tumor in your spleen to spread cancer to your liver, pancreas, and lungs, and kill you, where&#039;s the Deep End? 

I&#039;m saying this stuff is supposed to be intended for entertainment only, like the disclaimers for horoscopes say in big-city newspapers, and is not to be taken seriously. It&#039;s supposed to be COMPLEMENTARY treatment -- an adjunct, add-on, or parallel experiment -- and not a REPLACEMENT for real health care. That&#039;s why I call it &quot;health care entertainment&quot;, because that&#039;s what it is. And what could be more entertaining than a fair? Heck, we&#039;ve got all the magic acts and mysteries and clowns we need, right at hand, before we even get started! It&#039;s PERFECT for a fair!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What, me? Off the deep end? Hey, I&#8217;m not the guy claiming, &#8220;Get over it…if someone FEELS better, more power to ‘em.&#8221; That was Citereh. That points up a potential disconnect between FEELING better and BEING better. For instance, if you have a tummy-ache and you get involved in a six-month series of repeat visits for placebo ego-stoking and some homeopathic nostrums, and you feel better, and the resulting delay in evidence-based treatment allows the tumor in your spleen to spread cancer to your liver, pancreas, and lungs, and kill you, where&#8217;s the Deep End? </p>
<p>I&#8217;m saying this stuff is supposed to be intended for entertainment only, like the disclaimers for horoscopes say in big-city newspapers, and is not to be taken seriously. It&#8217;s supposed to be COMPLEMENTARY treatment &#8212; an adjunct, add-on, or parallel experiment &#8212; and not a REPLACEMENT for real health care. That&#8217;s why I call it &#8220;health care entertainment&#8221;, because that&#8217;s what it is. And what could be more entertaining than a fair? Heck, we&#8217;ve got all the magic acts and mysteries and clowns we need, right at hand, before we even get started! It&#8217;s PERFECT for a fair!</p>
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		<title>By: voiceofreason</title>
		<link>http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/2008/10/08/antigo-fantasy-health-fair-by-albus/comment-page-1/#comment-4051</link>
		<dc:creator>voiceofreason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 05:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/?p=118#comment-4051</guid>
		<description>Al, i think you have gone off the deep end on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Al, i think you have gone off the deep end on this one.</p>
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		<title>By: Albus</title>
		<link>http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/2008/10/08/antigo-fantasy-health-fair-by-albus/comment-page-1/#comment-4031</link>
		<dc:creator>Albus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/?p=118#comment-4031</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s what I&#039;m saying! Why kowtow to science and kneel down before verifiable data when you can just get better by BELIEVING?! We are far too quick to dump on superstition and magical thinking when such a huge portion of the population believes in guardian angels - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/19/half-of-americans-believe-in-angels/

Antigo can lead the fight against the waste of money and effort just for the pursuit of evidence by showing there are viable alternatives to rational thinking. Join us now, to create the Great Antigo Fantasy Health Fair!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m saying! Why kowtow to science and kneel down before verifiable data when you can just get better by BELIEVING?! We are far too quick to dump on superstition and magical thinking when such a huge portion of the population believes in guardian angels &#8211; <a href="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/19/half-of-americans-believe-in-angels/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/19/half-of-americans-believe-in-angels/</a></p>
<p>Antigo can lead the fight against the waste of money and effort just for the pursuit of evidence by showing there are viable alternatives to rational thinking. Join us now, to create the Great Antigo Fantasy Health Fair!</p>
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		<title>By: Citereh</title>
		<link>http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/2008/10/08/antigo-fantasy-health-fair-by-albus/comment-page-1/#comment-4030</link>
		<dc:creator>Citereh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 00:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://antigobuzz.com/blogs/?p=118#comment-4030</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s all worship at the altar of Western Medicine. What wonders await if only you can afford the cover charge! Forget quality of life, we&#039;ll patch your parts so you can live in misery for a few extra years. How dare anyone find any relief without a heaping dosage from big pharm?!

Get over it...if someone FEELS better, more power to &#039;em.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s all worship at the altar of Western Medicine. What wonders await if only you can afford the cover charge! Forget quality of life, we&#8217;ll patch your parts so you can live in misery for a few extra years. How dare anyone find any relief without a heaping dosage from big pharm?!</p>
<p>Get over it&#8230;if someone FEELS better, more power to &#8216;em.</p>
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